A Long Look in the Mirror
With all these rumors going around about possible trades for Johan Santana, I wanted to take a moment to list the players on the Mets who I would be truly pissed if they traded. It's not a long list.
1. David Wright.
Pretty sure no explanation is needed.
2. Jose Reyes.
Give me a fucking break.
If the Mets trade Jose Reyes I'll be crushed. Devastated. I have never _never_ enjoyed watching someone play as much as Jose Reyes.
How the fuck did everyone forget how great this kid is so quickly? Honestly, if the Mets trade Reyes I don't know that I'll be able to support them, I don't care who we get in exchange.
The celebrations, the stolen bases, the triples. Think about what we'd be giving up.
3. Oliver Perez.
How quickly things change. A year ago I was asking why we put so much faith in this guy, now he's an untouchable.
Young with the capacity to dominate games, Ollie is basically the best thing we have going in our rotation. Will he infuriate you sometimes? Yes.
But he's also a joy to watch. Whether it's his frustration when he fails to get a big hit or his jumping over the lines, I laugh once a game just watching Ollie perform.
Besides, Coop would be crushed if we traded him, and that ain't right.
4. Fernando Martinez.
I know nothing about him except that he'll basically be ready to go by the time Carlos Beltran's contract expires. Let's give him a chance.
* * * * * *
I've been thinking about this team a lot lately, and the more I think about it, the more I think it's time has past. As currently constructed, it can contend but it can't dominate.
I'm worried this team is dying a slow death, one that started last season. It may be time to blow it up and start again.
I don't know, maybe I'm being too hasty. The thing is, I look at this Mets team and we haven't gotten better in any respect this offseason. As a matter of fact, having lost Tom Glavine, we've probably gotten worse. Meanwhile, having added Brad Lidge, the Phillies have probably gotten better.
So what now? Do we give the current construct around Wright and Reyes one last go 'round? Perhaps that makes the most sense, given that Pedro and Delgado are inked for one more season.
The Mets need to get better. There are two ways to improve: sign players or develop prospects. The prospects we have are a bit suspect. Remember Game 3 of the ALCS? Remember when Phil Hughes came in? Have you ever watched Mike Pelfrey or Phil Humber and felt awed like you did then?
So how can we get more prospects? When I think about it, I always come back to one name: Carlos Beltran.
I've really come around on Beltran. I like watching him play. But when I look at it, I always find myself thinking he's the one guy who could really net us some valuable players.
My mind isn't made up on this topic, but I'd be curious to hear what other people think.
The question as I see it is this: if this Mets team's best chance was 2006, and if every year after that is a little worse than the one before it, at what point do you pull the plug? At what point do you grow tired of being an 88-win team with just a shot at the playoffs? At what point do you stop adding supplemental pieces and start reshaping around your core (Wright/Reyes)?
Hard questions, especially in New York.
If the Mets had made the playoffs would we be asking any of these questions? Probably not. But guess what? We didn't make the playoffs. We won 88 games. These are facts.
And now what's left? Are we building toward something new and great or are we closing our eyes and hoping to wake up in March 2006 again?
Offseason on Fire, Omar. I'm looking at you.
- A.F.O.M.G.
1. David Wright.
Pretty sure no explanation is needed.
2. Jose Reyes.
Give me a fucking break.
If the Mets trade Jose Reyes I'll be crushed. Devastated. I have never _never_ enjoyed watching someone play as much as Jose Reyes.How the fuck did everyone forget how great this kid is so quickly? Honestly, if the Mets trade Reyes I don't know that I'll be able to support them, I don't care who we get in exchange.
The celebrations, the stolen bases, the triples. Think about what we'd be giving up.
3. Oliver Perez.
How quickly things change. A year ago I was asking why we put so much faith in this guy, now he's an untouchable.
Young with the capacity to dominate games, Ollie is basically the best thing we have going in our rotation. Will he infuriate you sometimes? Yes.
But he's also a joy to watch. Whether it's his frustration when he fails to get a big hit or his jumping over the lines, I laugh once a game just watching Ollie perform.
Besides, Coop would be crushed if we traded him, and that ain't right.
4. Fernando Martinez.
I know nothing about him except that he'll basically be ready to go by the time Carlos Beltran's contract expires. Let's give him a chance.
* * * * * *
I've been thinking about this team a lot lately, and the more I think about it, the more I think it's time has past. As currently constructed, it can contend but it can't dominate.
I'm worried this team is dying a slow death, one that started last season. It may be time to blow it up and start again.
I don't know, maybe I'm being too hasty. The thing is, I look at this Mets team and we haven't gotten better in any respect this offseason. As a matter of fact, having lost Tom Glavine, we've probably gotten worse. Meanwhile, having added Brad Lidge, the Phillies have probably gotten better.
So what now? Do we give the current construct around Wright and Reyes one last go 'round? Perhaps that makes the most sense, given that Pedro and Delgado are inked for one more season.
The Mets need to get better. There are two ways to improve: sign players or develop prospects. The prospects we have are a bit suspect. Remember Game 3 of the ALCS? Remember when Phil Hughes came in? Have you ever watched Mike Pelfrey or Phil Humber and felt awed like you did then?
So how can we get more prospects? When I think about it, I always come back to one name: Carlos Beltran.
I've really come around on Beltran. I like watching him play. But when I look at it, I always find myself thinking he's the one guy who could really net us some valuable players.My mind isn't made up on this topic, but I'd be curious to hear what other people think.
The question as I see it is this: if this Mets team's best chance was 2006, and if every year after that is a little worse than the one before it, at what point do you pull the plug? At what point do you grow tired of being an 88-win team with just a shot at the playoffs? At what point do you stop adding supplemental pieces and start reshaping around your core (Wright/Reyes)?
Hard questions, especially in New York.
If the Mets had made the playoffs would we be asking any of these questions? Probably not. But guess what? We didn't make the playoffs. We won 88 games. These are facts.
And now what's left? Are we building toward something new and great or are we closing our eyes and hoping to wake up in March 2006 again?
Offseason on Fire, Omar. I'm looking at you.
- A.F.O.M.G.
posted by A Friend of Mr. Glass' at 12:45 AM
9 Comments:
I'm surprised that you didn't list: Maine, Endy, and Wagner.
Maine had a good year, not great, but good. And look at his performance in the second to last game of the season. Gotta keep him too.
Endy. This guy makes things happen. No way we can trade him.
Wagner. He may talk a lot of sh*t but he closes games.
And a word on prospects. Sure, build up the prospects with a Beltran trade. Problem is baseball in the year 2008 isn't about prospects. It's about winning RIGHT NOW. If we were interested in building a long term team then we'd have Pelfrey, Humber, Gomez, Millage, etc. playing all year. Instead they play them long enough to "show-case" them and use them as trade-bait for a 2-3 year contract. There isn't any room to develop prospects.
In this baseball world, if you have a bad season, you aren't helped out by the coaching staff, you are traded.
Two thoughts anon:
1. I thought about including Maine on the short list. I like him, but I don't know that he has the capacity to be consistently great the same way Wright, Reyes, and even Perez do.
As I said in my Thanksgiving Day post -- I think some day I'll look back on John Maine the same way I look back at Rick Reed or Bobby Jones. They weren't the studs of the rotation (Jones had to fake it for a little while I guess), but they were the rocks -- solid guys who bridged the front end of the rotation to the back. They were a lot of people's favorite Mets. But were they untouchable? Not for me.
As for Endy, love him but come on, you move him in a heartbeat if it'll get you alpha.
And Wagner? He's a nice part, he's not a cornerstone. Parts you can move, cornerstones are the foundation, which leads me to point two...
2. "Sure, build up the prospects with a Beltran trade. Problem is baseball in the year 2008 isn't about prospects. It's about winning RIGHT NOW."
Here's the thing I'm worried about: the Mets might not be built to win RIGHT NOW. There's no chance in hell they're better than the Red Sox. But fine, let's start with the NL. Are they really better than the Diamondbacks or the Phillies? Is it enough to go in to a season as the third best team in the league, second best in your own division? The question is: Is that the best this current group is going to do in the post-2006 world? If it is, the Mets need to accept it and act accordingly by getting rid of the parts while they still have value and thereby prop up the foundation.
My mind's not made up; we came awfully close last year after all, and I think we were better than our record. But what reason do any of us have to think 2008 will be better than 2007? Do you think we'll be better without Glavine? Do you think Delgado will revert to form?
It's entirely possible that a more consistent season from Reyes -- which we can probably count on, his numbers were Anderson Hernandez-bad in the final 6 weeks -- is all the team needs. But what if it needs something much more than that? That's my worry.
Funny, how everyone in blog land equates me to Oh Pea LOL. Thanks AFOMG. That would be incredibly wrong if they get rid of him. I don't care if G*d herself was pitching for us next year. And for those who say Pitching wins championships, i say HOGWASH. Pitchers go 6-7 innings, no one pitches complete games anymore, 100 pitches, it's all about the 'pen, keeping the offense in games, and having the bats decide. Trading the farm for Johan would be disaster of unmitigated proportions. And yes, Anon brings up a good point about Maine. People cry and scream about the Mets pitching rotation because we didn't have an "ace." Well, I agree...we had "two!" :)
I would trade every single player we have in the minor leagues for Johan Santana and I really mean that.
Our farm system compared to other teams atrocious.
If the Mets added Johan Santana to the current team and signed him for 5 years then they would be the best team in the NL for that time.
Santana-Maine-Perez
Wright-Reyes-Beltran
All of a sudden the present and future is very very bright.
I said to trade Beltran to the Dodgers a month ago. Instead they gave 18/per to Andruw Jones.
Minaya will NEVER trade Beltran. Beltran is his crown jewel.
-Sip
Sippy, dahhling, you seem to forget one simple fact - that Carlos B has a full NTC and would not approve a trade anywhere. That was his selling point for coming to NY back in 2005. Believe me, I think he's expendable too and his contract NOW seems like a bargain, it would be a steal for any other team. but it aint happenin. Ondroo is getting paid for what he did when he was like 19 or whatever.
Sip -- if you believe what you read, you can't get Santana for every prospect in our system. You need to add Reyes or Perez. I don't think they'll trade Reyes. Santana-Maine-Perez is a sick rotation that's set for years, but Santana-Maine isn't. It's a great start, sure. Maybe it does make sense to trade Ollie, but I don't want it to happen. The upside is still so high.
On the other hand, what about using guys like Pelfrey or Humber as relievers? Let them get a little seasoning out of the pen then use them as starters down the road if you can. The Twins use this model well as you all know.
are you being to hasty? yes... and so is all of the metternet (i just made that up... and i like it... although maybe intermet is better)
the "collapse" should not cause us to lose focus. A baseball season should be looked at as a whole, not just the final few weeks. What did we have? a great beginning, mediocre middle, and poor ending.
We have a great young core, we have resources to get free agents (next year, when at least 1 of those pitching studs will hit the market) and we have some good fill-ins in the minors. Gomez is highly regarded and should be playing for us full time next year. FMart is a few years away. Pelf and Humber may have taken a hit, they are no longer looked at as #1's... but they are still solid prospects that could become good starters for us... maybe even this year!
Not to mention we still have a great bench, a very strong catching situation (castro and BS should for a very good platoon). And what may turn into a great bullpen.
The big thing is management. I blame the collapse on Willie and I am looking forward to how he responds. Does he make adjustments? or is he fired by June?
Remember how we all thought JRoll was a joke and that hte phills didnt have the goods to win like he said? Crazy shit happens in a baseball season.
anyway... ya gotta believe! right?
Agree with a lot of what you say gbaked, but disagree in one major area: we had one good month (April), one mediocre month (May) and a bad four months. That's scary. I don't think the middle was mediocre. Aside from the 10-game stretch against the Braves and the Reds after the first Phillies sweep, I can't remember a time after late May when the team looked good.
Is it the manager's fault? In part. But is it also a fault of the team's design? That's the question. Maybe the answer is no. Maybe we're actually more 2006 than 2007. But if 2007 is what we really were, then 2008 is going to be something similar at best, and worse at worst.
My mind's not made up on any of this by the way. I don't want to make it seem like I'm overreacting, I'm more trying to engage a topic I think is essential to the future of the club.
Successful businesses aren't just ahead of the curve, they see the curve before others do. This team was very well constructed in 2006. In 2007 it had flaws. What comes next? How do we stay ahead of the curve? I don't think you can discount the possibility that the team needs to be rebuilt.
Remember, if we play our cards right, rebuilding doesn't have to mean Jason Phillips (RIP). It could mean more guys like Wright or Reyes.
This team was very well constructed in 2006 but in 2007 it had flaws?
In 2006 we had Zambrano starting. We had a noraml Delgado. We had D. Sanchez. Juiced Mota. We had Nady.
In 2007 we got rid of Zambrano, lost Delgado's bat and lost D. Sanchez. Got Mota UNjuiced and had to replace Nady.
Seems more like we just got unlucky but still have that well constructed team.
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